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Written by Bill
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Monday, 22 February 2010 09:00 |
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I've been very critical of the argument that Jack Morris should be in the Hall of Fame because he was the "winningest pitcher of the eighties." While it's a wonderful thing to be one of the best in the business for ten whole years (and Morris wasn't, but that's neither here nor there), a player doesn't deserve any extra credit due to the accident of having had those ten years begin in a year ending in zero. So I was thinking: who are the Players of Decades that didn't have the happy accident of coming into prominence in a nice, round year? I decided to look at the decade that runs from years ending in 5 to years ending in 4, just because that list seems likely to be the furthest removed from your traditional "team of the decade" lists. So we'll do each of the ten full "decades" that began in the twentieth century. Today: 1905-1954. We'll do the other half later in the week. Stats shown are for the relevant decade only.
1905-1914 C: Roger Bresnahan (.275/.398/.362, 129 OPS+, 3360 PA) 1B: Ed Konetchy (.278/.353/.400, 125 OPS+, 4774 PA) 2B: Nap Lajoie (.331/.384/.425, 146 OPS+, 5195 PA) 3B: Frank Baker (.321/.375/.471, 153 OPS+, 3840 PA) SS: Honus Wagner (.328/.397/.466, 155 OPS+, 5920 PA) LF: Sherry Magee (.301/.375/.450, 143 OPS+, 5927 PA) CF: Ty Cobb (.368/.423/.515, 182 OPS+, 5258 PA) RF: Sam Crawford (.316/.369/.460, 150 OPS+, 6476 PA) SP: Walter Johnson (179-115, 1.62 ERA, 174 ERA+, 2442 IP)
Notes: The biggest beneficiary of the time shift is Sherry Magee, whose career started in 1904 and dropped off precipitously starting in 1915...if I'd arbitrarily chosen the decade from 7 to 6, Eddie Collins (who didn't start until 1907) would crush Lajoie, which I guess drives home that this is just as unfair as the traditional "team of the decade" posts...Home Run Baker and Walter Johnson didn't start until 1907 either [edit: actually 1908 for Baker], but Baker doesn't have HOF competition and Big Train was just that damn good...Wagner is probably the only one on this list that would also have been on the 1895-1904 team; consider that he was still primarily a shortstop, still one of the league's best hitters, and was age 31-40 during this period...Cobb is probably the CF of the decade from 1900-1909 even though he didn't start until 1905, but this makes it ridiculously easy.
1915-1924 C: Wally Schang (.289/.394/.399, 120 OPS+, 4116 PA) 1B: George Sisler (.353/.396/.498, 145 OPS+, 5258 PA) 2B: Rogers Hornsby (.359/.424/.562, 180 OPS+, 5408 PA) 3B: Heinie Groh (.295/.375/.390, 121 OPS+, 5824 PA) SS: Dave Bancroft (.279/.355/.362, 102 OPS+, 5703 PA) LF: Joe Jackson (.338/.405/.495, 159 OPS+, 3134 PA) CF: Tris Speaker (.353/.442/.509, 160 OPS+, 6101 PA) RF: Babe Ruth (.351/.483/.714, 219 OPS+, 4500 PA) SP: Walter Johnson (198-135, 2.32 ERA, 143 ERA+, 2875 IP)
Notes: This was definitely Schang's "decade," but he played long enough and well enough, as a catcher, that it seems to me he really ought to be in the Hall...Sisler's run of great seasons straddles 1920, so he probably doesn't make either the Team of the Teens or Twenties...man, Eddie Collins really gets screwed over in this range -- Hornsby's great run starts in 1916...bad time for shortstops, though Ray Chapman would probably look a lot better had he not been killed on the field in 1920...It was hard to pick Jackson (whose career also ended in '20, for very different reasons), but his quality of play over Bobby Veach was big enough for me to overlook nearly twice as many PA...you can flip a coin on offense, but I think Speaker's superior defense puts him ahead of Cobb for CF.
1925-1934 C: Mickey Cochrane (.321/.414/.483, 128 OPS+, 5380 PA) 1B: Lou Gehrig (.343/.444/.643, 184 OPS+, 6805 PA) 2B: Rogers Hornsby (.359/.448/.602, 171 OPS+, 3971 PA) 3B: Pie Traynor (.327/.370/.442, 111 OPS+, 6113 PA) SS: Joe Cronin (.303/.385/.451, 117 OPS+, 4254 PA) LF: Al Simmons (.359/.403/.589, 150 OPS+, 6087 PA) CF: Earle Combs (.327/.399/.467, 127 OPS+, 6133 PA) RF: Babe Ruth (.338/.469/.677, 199 OPS+, 6014 PA) SP: Lefty Grove (203-87, 3.04 ERA, 144 ERA+, 2510 IP)
Notes: This setup is a huge boon for Cochrane, whose years of greatness basically ran from 1925-1934...you'd expect it to hurt Ruth, since he was so clearly the whole story of the 1920s, but it ends up helping him because he becomes the slightly-less-dominant player of two decades...even that choice wasn't quite as easy as choosing Lefty Grove as pitcher.
1935-1944 C: Bill Dickey (.307/.391/.496, 130 OPS+, 4068 PA) 1B: Jimmie Foxx (.316/.425/.590, 155 OPS+, 4832 PA) 2B: Billy Herman (.307/.371/.416, 116 OPS+, 6060 PA) 3B: Stan Hack (.304/.394/.404, 121 OPS+, 6385 PA) SS: Arky Vaughan (.318/.408/.451, 137 OPS+, 5554 PA) LF: Joe Medwick (.328/.369/.512, 138 OPS+, 6162 PA) CF: Joe DiMaggio (.339/.403/.607, 159 OPS+, 4417 PA) RF: Mel Ott (.298/.419/.525, 160 OPS+, 6078 PA) SP: Tommy Bridges (131-84, 3.48 ERA, 130 ERA+, 1874 IP)
Notes: Foxx gets his moment in the sun here; Gehrig is probably the 1B of the 20s and 30s, Mize the 1B of the 40s, so here the second-greatest 1B of all time finally gets his own decade...and Charlie Gehringer, the clear 2B of the 1930s, gets edged out by an inferior overall player...Hack probably gets into the Hall if he'd excelled from '30-'41 rather than '35-'46...Carl Hubbell becomes the second huge snub after Collins, as he was clearly the pitcher of the '30s but didn't carry it over strongly enough into the early 40's; not a great time for pitchers as a whole, what with the war and all.
1945-1954 C: Yogi Berra (.296/.354/.497, 130 OPS+, 4333 PA) 1B: Johnny Mize (.287/.376/.528, 142 OPS+, 3182 PA) 2B: Jackie Robinson (.319/.414/.487, 137 OPS+, 4981 PA) 3B: Al Rosen (.295/.393/.521, 148 OPS+, 3297 PA) SS: Pee Wee Reese (.280/.383/.402, 109 OPS+, 5921 PA) LF: Ted Williams (.342/.489/.636, 193 OPS+, 4472 PA) CF: Larry Doby (.285/.394/.500, 142 OPS+, 4246 PA) RF: Stan Musial (.344/.434/.599, 172 OPS+, 6196 PA) SP: Warren Spahn (166-110, 2.93 ERA, 129 ERA+, 2417 IP) RP: Ellis Kinder (92-65, 75 Sv, 3.48 ERA, 123 ERA+, 1357 IP)
Notes: Roy Campanella might've given Yogi a run for his money if Yogi didn't get a two-year advantage for being born white...Jackie and Doby, meanwhile, wouldn't come all that close to qualifying in the 40s or 50s, so this range is perfectly suited to them...I almost gave Ted the nod in the previous decade too, but Medwick did have almost 3x the playing time...relief pitching slowly but surely started to become a meaningful part of the game during this period, so I thought I'd better start including them...couldn't decide what to do with Musial--at first, I accidentally omitted him entirely, since his not playing 50% at any one position kept him from showing up in my searches; then I had him at 1B, the single position at which he spent the most time in the period, replacing Mize; then I decided to fudge a bit and put him in RF, replacing Enos Slaughter.
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Written by Bill
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Friday, 19 February 2010 09:00 |
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There seems to have been, as I've noted before, a kind of backlash against Mariners GM Jack Zduriencik. And I can understand that, I suppose. He's made some great moves and everything, but you look at a guy who has had the job for one year -- a successful year, but one with a lot of luck, too, if Pythagoras is to be believed -- and it's hard to hear people anoint him the Best GM in Baseball. Especially when the heart of his team's lineup seems likely to end up looking about as fearsome as the Pirates' 7-8-9 punch (yeah, including the pitcher). Now, again, I happen to believe that Z is the best GM in baseball -- or in a fight for the title with BillyB and Theo, anyway -- but I get where the backlash is coming from.
Trouble is, there hasn't been much to pick apart in his record, setting aside what he hasn't done (i.e. get a power hitter). Everything he's done so far has been pretty brilliant. So thank the Mariners for this e-mail that made its way to my inbox yesterday:
That image on the bottom is this page, the Season Ticket Save-O-Meter. You pick the number of seats, location and the package you're interested in buying, and up on what I guess is supposed to be the Safeco manual scoreboard pops what it'll cost you, what it would cost you if you bought single-game tickets in the same location to that exact same number of games for some reason, and how much money you're "saving" by getting the season package.
The interesting thing, of course, is that picture of Jack Z along the right side. All along, he's been looking at you (er, out of the screen, sort of in your general direction) kind of incredulously, like he can't believe it's really taking you this long to make this kind of obvious decision. And then you click "Calculate" to make the awesome savings pop up, and a speech bubble immediately appears over his head that says one of at least six things that are equally viewable as GM-y or used-car-salesman-y, things like "I say make the deal." "Now that's a valuable pickup." "Talk about a blockbuster deal." "It's like a signing bonus." Et cetera.
Nothing particularly noteworthy about this, I suppose; it just made me laugh. Let's be honest, it's not as though Z's the most photogenic GM in baseball anyway, and it's just funny to see him with the silly little cartoon bubble over his head uttering trite contract-related sayings to try to sell you tickets. We couldn't have equally cartoonish representations of Ichiro or Griffey or Felix telling us what an unsurpassable deal we're getting?
Anyway, so Zduriencik finally looks kind of dumb, in a way. Enjoy!
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Written by Bill
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Thursday, 18 February 2010 09:00 |
Time for session three in our series of rudimentary courses on advanced baseball statistics for non-math people by a non-math person. See number one, on OPS+, ERA+ and wRC+, here, and number two, on FIP and other defense-independent pitching statistics, here.
If you've read this blog, or any vaguely stats-oriented baseball blog, or a baseball message board of some type, any time in the last year, odds are good that you've come across the acronym WAR, for Wins Above Replacement. If you've been at it a little longer than that, there's a good chance you saw WARP, or Wins Above Replacement Player. They've become incredibly popular over the last few years, for good reason: WAR[P] gives you a single number with which one can compare any two players, no matter what types of players and what positions they play -- even, if you want to get really crazy, a position player and a pitcher -- and get an idea of which one was more valuable. And unlike, say, win shares, which are crazily complicated and give you a number up to (or above) 40 representing the number of arbitrarily-decided-upon thirds-of-a-win the player achieved for his team, WAR and WARP, at the highest level, are very simple: adding up the total value of everything the player does -- his hitting, fielding, pitching, sometimes baserunning -- how many wins did the player give his team over and above what they could have expected had they just plugged in any remotely serviceable player they could find in his place? So they're useful, and they're relatively easy to understand and come to terms with even if you don't get all the underlying math.
WARP was the only game in town for some time. Created, as so many great things are, by Baseball Prospectus (BP), WARP is really about as simple as what I just described above: add up a player's Batting Runs Above Replacement (BRAR), Pitching Runs Above Replacement (PRAR), and Fielding Runs Above Replacement (FRAR), and divide the result by the number of runs determined to be worth a "win" in that league and that season (typically around ten), and you end up with the number of wins a player earned above a replacement player in the same spot. The hard part, of course, is figuring out BRAR, PRAR and FRAR...which you can't do, unless you work for BP or know someone who does.
There are actually two versions of WAR, one designed by Sean Smith ("Rally") and available at BaseballProjection.com, and one available at FanGraphs. They can differ from each other, sometimes by a lot, though the major difference is that FanGraphs WAR, which uses UZR for its defensive component, is available only since 2002, while Sean Smith's defensive rating system changes according to the amount of data available for a given season, so his WAR goes all the way back to Al Spalding. But FanGraphs WAR and Rally WAR are a lot more similar to each other than either is to BP's WARP.
The components are slightly different among the three metrics. For one thing, BP calculates runs above replacement, while Rally and FanGraphs calculate runs above average, and then add in the replacement level -- the number of runs a replacement player is below average -- to arrive at runs above replacement. BP calculates different replacement levels for each position, while the other two use one replacement level per league, per year, and then add a position adjustment based on the difficulty of the positions they played. Rally adds a whole bunch of smaller adjustments into it separately, while with the other two, those effects are measured (if at all) as part of the total batting, fielding or pitching runs. But while I'm sure some of these differences have real effects, it seems to me to be basically a distinction without a difference. They're all adding up the total runs the player creates and/or prevents above a replacement player, and dividing by approximately ten to come up with the wins he created.
So what is the difference? Why did all these smart people set out to create a statistic that measured the exact same thing that BP's established stat did (and with an almost identical name and acronym)?
Well, at least a few reasons (I'm sure there were many, but here are the ones I know):
- Tom Tango, at least, was convinced that Baseball Prospectus' replacement level was far too low. BP doesn't divulge its replacement level (that, like most other things, is BP-proprietary), but their glossary does explain that "a team which is at replacement level in all three of batting, pitching, and fielding will be an extraordinarily bad team, on the order of 20-25 wins in a 162-game season," and has explained elsewhere that a "replacement player" is essentially an AAA player that might be called upon to fill in as an emergency injury replacement. Tango noted that replacement players are freely available who are not (as BP was assuming all replacement players were) far, far below average on both offense and defense, and so he adopted a much higher standard for a replacement player, one with a total contribution of about -20 against average. BP eventually announced that it was making upward adjustments to its own definitions of replacement level, which lowered its WARP numbers across the board...but still not to the level of the two WARs. Accordingly, WARP is virtually always considerably higher than either WAR number. Pujols' 2009, for example, gets 9.2 by Rally WAR and 8.5 by FanGraphs WAR, but a whopping 11.8 by WARP.
- BP's fielding numbers are pretty opaque, and don't seem all that trustworthy. Nobody really knows how FRAR was calculated before. Now they use play-by-play data, but nobody knows how. UZR and Total Zone, on which the two WARs are based, are also based on play-by-play data (where available) and are much more transparent and verifiable, and just seem to make a bit more sense.
- BP's numbers in general, as you might have picked up already, are opaque. As a subscription-based site that closely protects its secrets, it's hard to tell what goes into BRAR, FRAR and PRAR, and, for that matter, the replacement levels. Meanwhile, if you're willing to do enough digging/Googling and have the math chops, you can pretty much figure out every single thing that goes into the FanGraphs or Rally WAR. The creators of these numbers (particularly Tango -- see e.g. here and here) are generally committed to being open about the numbers they use and where they're coming from. I'm not one to dig into the math, as you know, but I do like to have some idea of what it is I'm looking at.
So you can probably tell where I come out. I love BP for many reasons, and I'll refer to all three systems now and then to check consistency and such, but if I have to pick one, I'm sticking with WAR (FanGraphs', when available). Another great thing about WAR is that, because it's so freely and widely available and has become so widely used and discussed, there are very easy reference points. A player with a full-season WAR of 2.0 is roughly an average regular (see Kosuke Fukudome, A.J. Pierzynski). 4.0 or so is a star, if not quite elite, player (Brian Roberts, and Phillies fans will kill me, but Ryan Howard). 6.0 is a superstar and possible MVP candidate (Mark Teixeira, Dustin Pedroia). 8.0 or better is a guy who had a huge year and almost certainly an MVP candidate (Pujols, Joe Mauer). I'm sure you can create similar benchmarks for WARP, and BP probably has, but I'll never remember what they are, so that kind of misses the point.
So that's Wins Above Replacement [Player]. Questions will be welcomed, then furiously Googled...
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Written by Mike
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Wednesday, 17 February 2010 11:47 |
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I think my nationalism is broken.
Aside from the hilariously awkward cauldron malfunction during the Opening Ceremonies and the sad tragedy on the luge track, I have not been paying attention to the Winter Olympics. This morning, I was surprised to find that the US was second in the overall medal count (behind Germany. Germany???), while the formerly powerful Russians were languishing with just one bronze medal, behind such international powerhouses as Estonia, Slovakia, and Switzerland. But, frankly, I don't care. I have never heard of most of these athletes before, and I will never hear of them again. I realize that these athletes have devoted countless hours and unimaginable effort to reach the peaks of their sports, but their performances don't invite audience participation outside of the traditional "U.S. against the World" storyline, or the manufactured "Athlete X has had to overcome such hardship to be here." I mean, can you really tell the difference between one bobsled run and another? I can't. Is there a good reason why a biathalon involves cross-country skiing and shooting? What in God's name could those activities have to do with one another? To study enough to fully appreciate these efforts would take far too much of my time, and the mechanics of some of these activities don't really suggest great athleticism (really, you can push a sled down a hill? so can my 3 year old). While I used to enjoy the skiing program (I was a (very bad) competitive alpine skier), I've lost touch over time (perhaps related to my second torn ACL, which I still need to get fixed). And I'm too old to get crushes on figure skaters anymore (besides, no one can replace Kristi Yamaguchi), even though Johnny Weir is pretty awesome. So, I guess I'm left with hockey, a sport I was never very good at and that I don't like watching on TV.
Meanwhile, pitchers and catchers have started to report; player X is in the best shape of his life, player y is using last year as extra motivation, almost all the offseason movement has sorted itself out, and official workouts begin tomorrow. Baseball has a familiar rhythm, both in the ways it is played and reported on that is soothing. Baseball has a history that is both accessible and relatable to the current game. The sounds and smells and actions of the game are repetitive so as to invite easy comparison and analysis. And so baseball fandom is like a habbit that is constantly reinforced in a wonderful feedback loop. The more you pay attention to the game, the more you notice; the more you notice, the more you remember great performances and appreciate the performance in front of you; and the more you remember and appreciate the game, the greater the interest you have in continuing to pay attention. And the nature of the regular season, where there are games every night reinforces and rewards your constant attention, such that when the season ends, it can hurt like a pang.
So while the Olympics are nice, I guess, when they end I won't really care. I won't have lost a close friend that keeps me company every night. And when they return in four years, I won't be nearly as excited as I am to see footage of Minnesota Twins playing catch in Fort Myers or hear Vin Scully's voice for the first time in months. This is already shaping up to be an interesting season, and here's one storyline for each team that is going to be worth watching for the next 8 months:
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Written by Bill
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Tuesday, 16 February 2010 09:00 |
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Billy Hamilton!

Interestingly, after Sliding Billy, the next best player born on February 16 is probably Eric Byrnes. Quite the dropoff.
Hamilton would be 144 today, and that would be some kind of record. Hamilton's .344 career batting average is still 8th all time. His .455 OBP is 4th all time, and his 912 stolen bases are good for third.
Now, it's true that the league batting average for his time was .286 (compare to .264 during Willie Mays' career, or Cobb's .273), and that in 1894, when Hamilton hit .405, his was the third-best batting average in the Phillies' starting outfield (fellow Hall of Famers Ed Delahanty and Sam Thompson both hit .407), and that they didn't keep track of caught stealing back then, so for all we know Hamilton could've had 100 CSes to go with those 111 steals in 1889 (though of course we can assume that if he ran so much more than everybody else, he was probably pretty good at it).
But nonetheless. Hamilton was, as this very interesting-sounding book notes, the game's first great leadoff man. He led his league in on-base percentage four times, batting average twice, walks and steals five times apiece. He led the league in runs four times and scored 192 of them in that 1894 season (a brilliant baserunner getting on base at a .523 clip in front of two other .400 hitters is a good thing -- who knew?), still an all-time record. No one has ever come within 15 runs of that record, and no one has come within 40 runs of it in the last 80 years. His 1690 runs scored are still twenty-fifth all-time, despite the fact that he lasted less than 14 seasons, and he's third all-time among players whose careers ended before 1901.
Here's what I can't decide: is Hamilton a player who is forgotten because he played in the last decade of the nineteenth century rather than the first of the twentieth, or does that help him somehow? On one hand, the cartoonish nature of some of his numbers make him seem like a product of his era that really can't be moved (though, as the interview with the author of that book linked above notes, his skills weren't the kind that were really appreciated in that time either). On the other hand, while he's no Ty Cobb, his style of play may have fit in well with the fast-paced, get-the-one-run-at-all-costs style of the twentieth century's first two decades. This is a guy who certainly deserved to be a superstar, and I have to think that in Ty Cobb's era, he really would've been.
Here's the most interesting thing I've found about Hamilton: in 1891, he led the National League in walks for the first of his five times (with 102) and in hits for the only time (179). As you might imagine, doing both in the same year is awfully rare; a high hit total tends to be the mark of one who doesn't walk enough. In fact, I'm not nearly certain of this, but in my brief check I can find only three NL'ers who have ever led the league in both in the same year.
Weird thing? All three played centerfield for the Phillies when they did it:
Hamilton, 1891: 179 hits, 102 walks Richie Ashburn, 1958: 215, 97 Nails Dykstra, 1993:194, 129
I might have missed one (or more), but unless the one I missed is another Phillies CF, I probably don't need to know...
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Written by Bill
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Friday, 12 February 2010 09:00 |
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So, spurred on by a truly bizarre, but brilliant, idea from Andrew Kneeland of Twins Target, today is Nick Punto Day. Twins bloggers all over the blogoworld are writing whatever they feel like writing about the Twins' frustrating and kind of inherently funny utility infielder.
Well, I'm not a Twins blogger, technically, but close enough, so I wanted to participate. But then I realized that I'd already written very nearly a thousand words about Punto, back on October 16, five days after he made one of the most astounding baserunning mistakes in postseason history. How much more can one really say about the guy?
So, in honor of Nick Punto Day, I'm doing my first-ever repost. Here's what I had to say when I anticipated Nick Punto Day like four months early. Since this was written, unbelievably, two of the three possibilities I mentioned below happened, and two of the kind of wishful-thinking ones; they traded for Hardy and signed Hudson. Well, that still leaves third base, and I still believe that Punto's your man, and that that's just fine. So here it is, after the jump:
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Written by Bill
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Thursday, 11 February 2010 09:00 |
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Well, since it's Hall of Fame week and all (until tomorrow, which is Nick Punto Day), I might as well indulge again.
After the Albert Belle debate the other day, I started thinking about Belle's neighbor in that Cleveland outfield. Center fielder Kenny Lofton is probably remembered by most people now as a journeyman third-and-a-half outfielder, after playing for an amazing nine different teams in the last six years of his career. And in all, he played for eleven different teams -- more than everyone who has ever played except two relief pitchers -- and had three different tours with Cleveland, the only team for which he played more than one season. You can understand why he'd be remembered for something like that.
But Lofton also:
- played 16 full seasons, 2103 games;
- hit .299 and collected 2478 hits;
- stole 622 bases, 15th all time, and led his league five years in a row;
- scored 1528 runs, 56th all time, scoring 100+ six times and 90+ six more times; and
- played in six straight All-Star Games.
That's the kind of resume that, while it certainly doesn't scream "Hall of Fame," at least deserves another look. Is Kenny Lofton a Hall of Famer? (click here to read more)
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Written by Mike
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Wednesday, 10 February 2010 17:35 |
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Apparently, it's HOF week here at The Daily Something. Yesterday, Bill made an important distinction between the Hall of Fame and your Hall of Fame (well, not yours personally, but the Hall of Fame of anyone who insists on applying their own standards to the existing Hall to complain about how current or potential enshrinees do not belong), pointing out, "If your Hall of Fame doesn't have room for Ron Santo in it, then you're dealing with an entirely different sort of institution than the one located in Cooperstown, NY," because Ron Santo is clearly one of the best 10 or so 3B in history and 3B are underrepresented in the Hall. The irony, of course, is that as much as every baseball fan has their own definition for what constitutes a Hall of Famer, the Hall itself has no real definition. A Hall of Famer simply is someone who 75% of supposedly knowledgable voters decide is a Hall of Famer. A set of rules does limit the pool of eligible players somewhat (players simply have to last 10 years in the league and have been retired at least 5 (unless they die unexpectedly)), but almost none of the players it excludes would be considered candidates anyway (unless you're dying to vote for Shane Spencer for his great run of 78 PAs in '98). The Hall itself gives incredibly vague guidelines that barely limit the pool from which writers can choose. Voters should consider “record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played,” but which statistics are relevant, what contributes a "contribution" to a team (Kevin Millar, by all accounts, was a great teammate in Boston) and how much consideration to give to unquantifiable qualities such as integrity, sportsmanship, and character is left entirely to the discretion of the voters. Without objective criteria, Ron Santo is not technically a Hall of Fame quality 3B because the Hall of Fame voters don't view him as such.
Confused yet?
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Written by Bill
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Tuesday, 09 February 2010 09:00 |
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So I had a really good time monitoring, and participating in, the comments to the debate Gene and I did over at ATH Baseball yesterday. It became a debate that was less about Albert Belle and more about Ron Santo, of all people (and honestly, I had no idea before yesterday that there were still people outside the Veterans' Committee itself who didn't think Santo was a Hall of Famer, but they're out there), and about the nature of the Hall of Fame generally.
A sentiment that emerged from the crowd was that there were too many not-really-great players in the Hall of Fame. Some said what we really needed was a way to separate the wheat from the chaff. One wing for your Babe Ruths and Willie Mayses, and another for your Bill Mazeroskis and Andre Dawsons. Sal said something that I suspect encapsulates what a lot of the commenters were thinking:
The HOF started out as being for a certain class of player and the fact that they seem to feel they have to put someone in every year takes away from it's importance. Getting elected to the HOF is not what it once was.
To which I say...well, a few things. First, I agree generally that there are too many generally uninspiring players in the Hall, but my complaint is with the quality of players selected, not the quantity (though we could do with just a couple fewer Chick Hafeys and Freddy Lindstroms). Substitute Tim Raines for Jim Rice, Bert Blyleven for Bruce Sutter, Lou Whitaker for Tony Perez, etc., and I'm happy.
But my main point is this: getting elected to the HOF is exactly what it once, and always, was. People tend to have this vision of the Hall as a place that was intended for legends, the very best of the very best, a place that's downright sullied by the inclusion of guys like Dawson or (God willing) Santo. (click below to read more)
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Written by Bill
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Monday, 08 February 2010 09:48 |
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One of the other baseball sites in the wonderful Bloguin network, Around the Horn Baseball, was soliciting guest writers to participate in weekly "great baseball debates" leading up to the season opener. I took up the challenge and ended up as part of the inaugural debate, up against Gene Zarnick from the excellently-named site Favre Dollar Footlongs.
The topic: "Should Albert Belle be in the Hall of Fame?"
I was prepared to argue either side, but luckily, so was Gene, so I got to go to town on the side I actually believe in (no, no, no, a million times no).
I had fun. You can read Gene's pro-Belle piece, and my much longer anti-Belle response, here.
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